Stop this shit. We're men

Share your experiences with the opposite sex. Suggest ways to improve your success. Analyze the behavior of females in real life and online. Rant and rave about females. Show the importance of looks pertaining to attracting females and other social situations. Discuss aesthetics and the science of attractiveness. Exchange health, nutrition and looksmaxing tips.

It is a complicated issue honestly.

What is clear is that feminism has totally shifted the relationship between men and women.

Let us remember that there are underlying biological realities here, which feminism does not consider whatsoever, after all the goal of feminism in an ideal world is equality of men to women. Of course we all already know this is not reality as the two are quite different natured.

Nevertheless let us consider the situation under feminism.

Under feminism the normal relationship between men and women is abolished and the only utility that remains for the other from either side is one of pleasure. It is no longer a functional, necessary, productive relationship with a higher long term purpose, under feminism the relationship is purely one of pleasure.

After all, both parties are autonomous and also free from any obligations (such as producing and raising children) so they no longer have any non pleasure purposes to interact. They do not even have a need per se to interact although they may do so if desired for pleasure purposes.

This changes the whole ballgame as men are no longer necessary, and they no longer have access to natural purpose and meaning derived through wife and family along with their leadership and responsibility role which they would normally have to fulfill.

They also no longer derive purpose from a career or other providing endeavor, usually in the company and cooperation of other males, for providing for and sustaining their collective tribe/existence which also provides great meaning and purpose.

Under the pleasure system there really is no "tribe" except one self, in a free society that has no other goals than pleasure seeking.

The new male is now just another consumer unit in the market of pleasure, stripped of further utility.

Their role is oppressive and restrictive of the human freedom of females, who are equal to them as human beings, therefore that role must be abolished and made illegal so that females are no longer oppressed from pursuits outside of their female role.

Of course the system does not actually function in this way in reality, as females often end up in a weird middle place between their natural instinctive role and their desired freedoms, along with the fact that they impose upon the freedoms of men in a manipulative fashion for their own selfish gain under what should be a fully egalitarian system, but we are only discussing the ideal right now.

Remember too that the new system is incompatible with natural male instincts and behavior, so that must now be repressed, by force and law if necessary, for the sake of the freedom of all the parties in the new system.

Thus males and females are left with no purpose for one another, other than pleasure. Additionally since females derive pleasure from submission, much of the new pleasure activities still conform to the old systems roles, but stripped of other aspects of it (e.g. child production and care).

Women have the freedom to submit, casually, for pleasure, but only insofar as they allow and no more. Their submission is a casual act, removed from the full original experience, the same as a roller coaster still retains some aspect of primitive fear, but does not retain the full original true experience of facing real death. People still have the system though that responds to such things, so the sanitized safe modern version that retains the thrill while removing the risk, is kept for the indulgence of modern citizens at their discretion.

Additionally this new egalitarian system has a great flaw. That is, the citizens within it do not all share the equal ability to attain the pleasures of the new system, as the ability to do so is based upon ones merit by the systems rules, of which not all citizens are born of the genetic capability to achieve the same level of desirable pleasurable outcomes.

So it is not really egalitarian, as the pleasure resource is not distributed equally, but rather based off at least partially if not even further, genetic merit.

Additionally this society has no obligations or responsibilities or expectations in regards to sacrifice and long term progress, it is not centered upon higher purposes or progressing beyond what it is, it is only concerned with satisfying pleasures and that is the purpose of the society.

Thus a incel or beta male within the system, has no way to win, as no individual can be compelled to provide their pleasure, as that would be oppression, and their inherent qualities make them unappealing for casual purposes in regards to women in the system, although they can still contribute to the system in other ways and receive financial compensation for their efforts, however this does not generally satisfy their inherent desires in the long term.

They provide great value to the system in many ways, but they are not appropriately compensated by the pleasure system for their efforts since women are free and under no obligation to do so. Remember in this system we cannot infringe upon people's freedom, even though mother nature has infringed upon there's.

It's a thorny problem as the unattractive males contribute much, but they can never be compensated. What ends up happening for now is that they are sacrificed for the benefit of the system at the cost of themselves. Generally by believing falsely that they can be compensated in the future as a result of their efforts and being unaware of their inherent inability to be.

Even if the unattractive male is compensated by women, at the cost to them of having to be sexual with someone they are not attracted to, it is still not the same as ideal compensation as they do not experience true, deep, raging female desire but rather dissatisfying forced sexuality.

The incels and betas are just not attractive. And women are just not attracted to them. On a deep, instinctual, primitive level, it is not a decision or a choice. It is a cruel design of nature rather. That of creating creatures that desire deeply one another, but are are repulsed by one another.

There does not seem to be any solution to that really, aside from eliminating unattractive males once and for all through human progress if that is possible.

Of course the other alternative is to discourage hedonism and change people's goals purposes and directions such that it is no longer centered around primitive human behavior and desires, e.g. the system of hard religion and monogamy. Of course this will always be a constant struggle, as human nature says different.

Additionally there is the problem of hedonism, that is that hedonism pursued to an extreme often leads to paradoxical destruction of happiness and total brokenness of soul and spirit.

Not to mention the functional problems introduced from a society of non reproducing hedonists who do not continue in the responsibility of creating and maintaining the human race at large.

Humans may have advanced to some degree, but biologically they are still the same primitive creatures they were thousands of years ago. We have advanced only externally, not internally.

This creates a great conflict between our advancements and our nature, as our nature is not in tune with our modern advancements and is put into dysfunction by them.

External progress should not be without concern to internal function.

Modern feminism is an unnatural system, one which seeks to liberate humanity from human realities and constraints and necessities, but does so only externally not internally, thus it is a dismal failure, a broken machine that still functions to an extent but only partially sub optimally, like a scratched CD that still plays music but it constantly skips and distorts and tortures the music.

Additionally this is even assuming females are equal to males, and does not even address the actual fact of feminism being equivalent to other movements where weaker people are given special privileges and support so that they can have as much as other stronger groups, at the cost of the stronger group who must pay for it and be weakened by it, since they must carry not only themselves, but the weaker group as well.

The same would be true of a beta or incel movement, at least if it was demanding sexual support that is a negative cost to others to provide. That is literally sexual welfare, someone has to pay for the sake of someone inferior getting something they cannot attain on their own.

The people who would pay in that situation would be women, as they would have to suffer being with these men, despite no attraction for them.

A man would feel the same way, if compelled to have sex with women he was not attracted to and disgusted by.

I believe that humanity should ideally turn it's attention away from squabbling with each other, and rather turn it's attention to the source of all these problems in the first place, that is mother nature.

We should unite as one to solve these problems through great human progress, rather than fighting amongst ourselves, as the true source is not other human beings but rather reality itself.

Of course this may not come to be for various reasons, but it would be the ideal response given the facts.

If not then the other alternative is to make human progress, but it will always be a ghost of what it could under a united human federation whose ultimate purpose is the advancement and prosperity of humanity.

This would be the same as globalism, however it is the anti thesis of modern globalism, which is to create a human federation as well, but for the purposes of control and power by one small group of master humans over a larger group of slave humans, with no regard for human prosperity or progress, just control, rather than for the purposes outlined above.


Also wannabe I believe that your idea is valid although far more serious operations will be required, it could certainly be an element of it.

For the red pill to really spread two things should be done:

1. Extremely talented propaganda

2. Proper dissemination of said propaganda

For example, imagine the power of a hard hitting powerful documentary that presented in a gripping and emotional articulate impactful way some of the harsh realities of the red pill?

Right now the red pill is still primitive, it's crude, it's not communicated properly. That's the problem with it.

It hasn't been powerfully demonstrated and disseminated.

But if such a thing was done, especially as a organized operation with many facets, the impact could be huge.

Just as an example, this is a beginning:

But this video is of poor quality. Does not have many views. And is not widely disseminated.

For the red pill to spread, that would require fixing.

It is childs play. It is not the kind of serious level work that would be required.

wannabe wrote:G'd day guys :cool:

I wanted to say that all your failures, all your angers, and this hypergamy by due to one thing:...FEMINISM and the "women are goddesses, men are donkeys" culture.
That's not a political party or a small group of people, it is the today's mentality that changed us, it is inside all of today's humans, we have changed ourselves in a wrong way.

If you lived in the 50s, the ones among you that don't get any pussy now, would have found some pussy back then.

And the ones who make compromises now, like being with a girl at a lower beauty score than them, or the ones that pay girls hard money to be with them.... would not have the need to make compromises.

Now even Chads have to "date down". Yeah ok, a Chad still "gets at least one pussy" and you don't... but hey, how much is her beauty score compared to him? If he's 8, she is 6, not 8 ( more details later about this).

You don't believe me, you believe to the "SUB8 theory", which says that "Chads get all of them, if he's an 8 he gets girls worth 8 or lower, if he's 9 he gets 9s or lower, etc.". No. Fuck no and i have the proof.
I knew many guys around 7, 8, 8.5... and they all had the need to date down !! So what are you talking about??

Or maybe you see exactly looksmatched couples, but in reality they have to pay HARD money to be close to her, and she is faking feelings as well, so there's not even validation for him , he does not feel she likes him truly, unless he is deluded and believes it blindly.
You assume that all looksmatched couples are happy, but they are not. Few of them are.

We have to *take* *action* , not just talk chit chat like stupids.
If our "revolution" goes well, we'll also raise the looks score of the girls we can get.
I mean if you can only have possibilities with a 3 or 4 now, you can level-up to the 5s or 6s or 7s if we can reduce this fucking feminism we have everywhere.

"We are men and we have the penis", like the guys at MGTOW community say.
That also implies we have to take action, not spit out just words between us.

Let me know if you agree, and then i will tell you more details.

Who gives a shit about getting married or an LTR? I would only do that shit as a last resort to get my oneitis, but originally I wanted to be her side guy and let her husband do the beta-providing. I'm definitely not LTRing some random, uneducated dumb slut I meet online or in a bar, the only thing a non-oneitis bitch is good for is dick pleasure and validation.

@OldcelMisery I was not talking about LTRs only, the "date down or make compromises" issue is there for short-term relationships as well.
C'mon do you think to solve the problem and fuck tall models everyday by just looking for fuckbuddies instead of LTR?
It would be easy :) LOL

@Johnathan Buttweed
I don't agree with you saying that feminism is just about "humans now look for pleasure and not duties", while once upon a time was the converse.
No, we humans have been preferring pleasure for 10k year, it's not because of feminism.

Feminism is about "women are goddesses, men are inferior" , and as a consequence men have to date down or make compromises, as i am telling you in this topic. Women get the best, we get the shit.

p.s. If the change was just the one you say, then why only men have to date down or make compromises? Why not women instead?
You said that "pleasure before duty" influenced both men and women, and both only want pleasure with attractive humans of the opposite sex. But then also men would only look for cuties, rejecting UGs.
As you see, this is not happening. As you see, men now are content with little and they date/fuck down or are enslaved financially by their gf/wife/fuckbuddy.
Once upon a time i think you could even have a fuckbuddy/gf within your league, without spoling her. That's the difference.

Of course human beings pursue good things instead of bad things, however that is not necessarily just "pleasure".

Today's society is more concerned with short term pleasure than it is long term gain, even though arguably everything "good" we seek is "pleasure" and everyone is seeking it, I do agree with that to an extent but think there should be a distinction made in the good things people can pursue, of which pleasure does not fully encompass, but is an element.

In a monogamous, religious society pleasure is generally considered wrong and sinful and the ideal is pursuit of higher "goods" e.g. a intact family and properly raising/nurturing the next generation, just as an example.

Which is not necessarily always enjoyable or a short term pleasure, in the same sense that doing a line of coke is.

People in those societies try to reach a higher existence and purpose than simple hedonism even though of course individuals will stray, it's still the design of the society.

Although it's still considered "good" it's not the total absence of enjoyment, but it's a different form than short term pleasure seeking, aka full on hedonism. I think a distinction should be made here in that regard since one could conflate "pleasure" as the only "good" a human can achieve and pursue but I think there are distinctions of the positive things a human can pursue and they are not all equal or have the same outcomes.

Although as stated in technical terms yes everything a person does is about "pleasure" and achieving it, technically speaking. Hopefully you understand what I am trying to communicate.

As opposed to a hedonism designed society which is what we increasingly have today. And I am also saying that I believe the elites of society have shifted the society to a hedonism designed one from a non hedonism designed one on purpose, through long term engineering of the society and the people within it, to suit their own (negative) purposes.

Although feminism on paper is not about pleasure seeking at the cost of duties and responsibilities that's how it plays out in reality.

Essentially women reject their natural duty and responsibility and role and instead seek short term pleasures.

E.g. casual sex, partying, drinking, drugs, social media, netflix, recreational activity, etc.

They shift from wife and mother to consumer unit, along side men who under this system for all intents and purposes are one and the same as them, also consumer unit. No distinction between the two in the thinking of the system. Just another cog in the consumer system.

It's the same difference between a guy who is really smart dedicating his life to say solving cancer, despite all the difficulties and hard work and discipline and effort (read not enjoyable) it would require for achievement of a worthwhile long term goal that is ultimately more "good" but not necessarily more "pleasurable" vs just going on welfare and doing heroin all day, which is in the immediate hedonistic sense more enjoyable but hopefully the issues with that second approach would not even need explanation.

Women are the same, they aren't working towards a lifelong higher goal anymore, it's just short term gratification.

If humans had only preferred pleasure then we would never have gotten to where we are now, because no one would have made the hard sacrifices and hard work to make it happen. We'd all still just be having orgies in a hut somewhere just indulging ourselves everyday.

I do not believe in the god of the bible, but even the bible was aware of this phenomenon. Yes even as far back as that time there were people who presumably worshiped and followed hedonism as their god but they were self destructive and evil.

Hedonism appears to have the same effects on civilizations, cultures, and societies as it does on individuals. Essentially it destroys them.

Same as a heroin addict is usually destroyed by his hedonistic habit which is placed supreme above all else, so too is society destroyed in the same tortured disturbing process when mass hedonism becomes design of the society.

It destroys long term human happiness and peace, and crushes all human progress. It is the enemy of all higher human effort and function.

As I said, is it better for a genius to cure cancer, or to shoot up heroin and die miserable and broken?

It is unclear exactly why humans function in this way, that is that excessive indulgence of pleasure destroys them so severely, but it is a widely documented and demonstrated fact throughout all human history.

So I do not agree with your assertion that feminism has no hand in this new societal direction, nor that humans have never functioned in alternative ways.

Now let us move on to your next contention which is accurate.

You are correct, feminism has the advantage in the modern pleasure system, they are privileged at the expense of men. In my last post I was disregarding this fact intentionally for the purpose hypothetical thinking, not actually saying that feminism is not a system which is to the benefit of women at the cost of men.

Essentially the female pleasure is supreme and the male pleasure takes a backseat to it and things are
designed for the benefit of the female pleasure at the cost of male pleasure. That is accurate.

As feminism is after all, a movement of unjustified unearned pleasure benefits, same as financial welfare for blacks.

A big part of the problem here is that pussy in the modern system has a inflated price, which men submit to and accept, whereas dick has a much lower value, due to it's abundance

Essentially men continue to pay for a product, even as the price continues to increase, which allows the seller to continue making the same profits and then increase their profit even more by raising prices while still sustaining the same level of demand as before. Essentially the price of pussy keeps going up but the demand stays the same, so the profit just keeps increasing.

Imagine if mcdonalds increased the price of a cheeseburger from say $1 to $5. And still sold just as many. Why not? Their profit is now 5x before. Maybe next they increase it to $10, then $20. They still sell the same amount, just now their profit is 20x greater, because the customers do not refuse the higher prices and stop visiting mcdonalds, thus destroying or greatly diminishing their profits.

The same has happened in the dating market. Women keep raising the price of pussy, and men keep throwing their dick at them in droves regardless, thus they keep getting to have more and more of what they want, since men keep giving them their business, no matter how much they charge.

Any one given man too makes no impact upon the system by leaving it, since even though he is gone, there are still 99 dicks there to take his place. So it makes no difference.

Women keep raising the standard, and men instead of collectively telling them to fuck off and lower the prices if they want business, instead turn on each other and see how can better meet the new standard as a matter of competiton. In other words they attack each other for reaching the standard rather than attacking women for setting it in the first place.

So long as the market is flooded with dick women will have no incentive whatsoever to lower the standard or make it more fair, as they have no reason to do so. Why not just enjoy the free ride?

Men also have a greater drive and desire to fuck in general to fuck lots of women than girls do to fuck lots of men. This also contributes greatly to the power imbalance.

Men also have much lower casual sex standards than women do.

Just make a female dating profile sometime, with an average girl, I promise you'll do better with her than you will with a chad profile. Not to mention a chad profile will probably get a small number of first messages, but will still have to do alot of the work of initiating, a female profile will be flooded with dick just by existing.

Girls also collude much better than men to keep their pussy price high. Men spend most of their time fighting with other men, not with women. Women are basically a united front while men are divided.

For example when's the last time you saw women white knighting a man? Probably never. But you can watch stupid ass cucks do it all day long. I could go right now and easily post pages and volumes of cucks that are doing this as we speak.

Men have alot more sympathy and kindness in general than women too, they have a protective and helping instinct towards women, which women don't really have towards men. Women flock to male strength but men have a weak spot for female weakness and even find it attractive.

Men are basically collectively shooting themselves in the foot in todays world.

Uniting the men in any sort of significant fashion would be extremely difficult if not impossible indeed.

The feminists are just way better at it right now than we are. Sorry but that is just the facts. The only hope for men is to begin to organize and unite under one banner, just like the females and the feminists.

Before we can fight the feminists there is going to have to be a civil war with the cucks.

The great cuck infection must be confronted and slain. Men have been infected with this horrible cancer and it is decimating us and bringing us to our knees, bowing before the shit cunts and the elites.

The end result of the infection is a crippled neutered slave whose mind and body have been so corrupted that they not only accept their slavery but even desire it and pursue it and savor it.

You have been cucked, both by your women and by your government. They are both vile snakes that are the enemy of all free men of the world.

Did wannabe come out of the gay closet? I can't know because I put him on my ignore list...
victim count : 40

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Interdict me from drowning in the abyss of darkness
Turn me into Holy light that brings surety to the masses
Shall I duck the catastrophe would be thanks to you


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