The problems with surgery (READ THIS if you want a Lefort)

Share your experiences with the opposite sex. Suggest ways to improve your success. Analyze the behavior of females in real life and online. Rant and rave about females. Show the importance of looks pertaining to attracting females and other social situations. Discuss aesthetics and the science of attractiveness. Exchange health, nutrition and looksmaxing tips.

When I was a child, my parents took me to see various orthodontists about my underbite, and a plan was set into place to have orthognathic surgery when I turned 18 (or whenever my skull stopped growing). These trips to the doctor ended up redpilling me about the importance of physical attractiveness from a very young age, which I think has contributed to my ability to 'see through' things like social facades & political correctness.

Anyways, I ended up having a Lefort 1 the summer that I turned 19. After a gradual reduction of swelling over the months following the surgery, I acclimated to my new face. I improved from about a 4/4.5 to a 5.5/6.

It was really strange, honestly. People began acting nicer to me, and I could sense a general increase in the amount of attention I was getting from women. In high school I got some attention due to my height & broad shoulders (none of which I acted on due to insecurities about my underbite), but the increase post-surgery was very noticeable. About a year and a half after the surgery I finally got a girlfriend and lost my virginity.

However, it hasn't ALL been great like people here say. There are some really uncomfortable things that can pop up:

1) What are you supposed to tell your friends after you have the surgery? From the perspective of my friends at college, I basically went from unattractive in the spring semester to slightly good looking in the fall semester. It was awkward trying to explain the surgery to them (male looksmaxing is very stigmatized by society). It also completely changed the dynamics of our friendships, as I was now suddenly better looking and much taller than them. That might sound like a good thing, but it wasn't; I ended up becoming distanced from my average friends due to the LMS imbalance.

2) When girls complement you on your face, you KNOW it's not 'real'. My girlfriend will tell me I'm cute sometimes, and it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable because I know that I'm not REALLY cute. My current physical appearance is just a surface-level modification to disguise bad maxilla genetics.

3) The question arises; should you tell your partner that you had the surgery? I've been going out with this girl for 5 months, and I still wrestle with whether or not (or when?) I should tell her. It's an awkward dilemma.


In the end, I think surgery is a good option when it comes to correcting deformities. But please, don't think of it as the holy grail some people make it out to be on this site. Everything that has happened to me post-surgery has been objectively positive, but it also feels very surreal and slightly discomforting, as if it's 'not supposed' to happen.



2) When girls complement you on your face, you KNOW it's not 'real'. My girlfriend will tell me I'm cute sometimes, and it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable because I know that I'm not REALLY cute. My current physical appearance is just a surface-level modification to disguise bad maxilla genetics.


I never got this shit. Who the fuck cares what you used to look like? Humans are shallow as shit and the MAIN pejorative in life is to fuck upwards BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY to produce better offspring.

Nature is a cunt and would have seen you suffer as an ugly incel without any remorse or care, you as a HUMAN had the ability to change your fate and put a middle finger up to nature. Fuck what your "true self" is, no one else gives a shit. Everyone just cares about what you can give them, and now with your new face, you offer a "perfect" boyfriend material for some shallow little cumslut.
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Stop overthinking and be grateful that you had your surgery. You can now live a normal life.
The thing is, if you just do stuff and nothing happens, what’s it all mean? What’s the point?

gobman3000 wrote:
2) When girls complement you on your face, you KNOW it's not 'real'. My girlfriend will tell me I'm cute sometimes, and it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable because I know that I'm not REALLY cute. My current physical appearance is just a surface-level modification to disguise bad maxilla genetics.


I never got this shit. Who the fuck cares what you used to look like? Humans are shallow and shit and the MAIN pejorative in life is to fuck upwards BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY to produce better offspring.

Nature is a cunt and would have seen you suffer as an ugly incel without any remorse or care, you as a HUMAN had the ability to change your fate and put a middle finger up to nature. Fuck what your "true self" is, no one else gives a shit. Everyone just cares about what you can give them, and now with your new face, you offer a "perfect" boyfriend material for some shallow little cumslut.


I agree with everything in your post, however I can't help but feel guilty with disguising bad genes to make people like me more. Physical appearance is largely a reflection & expression of underlying genes; tampering with bone structure doesn't necessarily change the essence of a person.

I guess it's similar to women & make-up...except they don't feel any guilt whatsoever for caking that shit on their faces.



lanklet wrote:
I agree with everything in your post, however I can't help but feel guilty with disguising bad genes to make people like me more. Physical appearance is largely a reflection & expression of underlying genes; tampering with bone structure doesn't necessarily change the essence of a person.

I guess it's similar to women & make-up...except they don't feel any guilt whatsoever for caking that shit on their faces.


Oh well, millions of women are giving birth to ugly little ethnics and children with legitimate deformities. Your child will most definitely come out better than 90% of other kids out their solely due to your height. If your baby is really ugly, just strangle it at birth.

only tell your s/o when you're planning to have kids
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If you have major defects, you best not breed with someone on the same boat. You'll fucking doom your poor offspring. Go for the opposite, in your case someone with immaculate craniofacial development, and shortish-average height.

I for example have quite poor dentition, something I struggled with for years and have only started to optimize/stabilize thanks to Vitamin D supplementation. So for me, I give bonus points to any broad with immaculate dentition (see sig). One of my siblings has only needed about 2 fillings in their life, that's the height of their dental history, a fucking joke. Whilst I've needed root canals, 2-4 teeth removed, tonnes of fillings not to mention I have 2 or so less teeth than a normal person (they never developed)...kind of 3 as one of my front teeth is still a baby tooth. It's amazing how siblings can differ so much (as you can imagine we had similar-ish diets).

Anyway it's not surprising you needed craniofacial surgery, you're what, 6'8 is it ? Heights like that are odd and generally come with some draw back, it's not natty/healthy to be like that. (no offense).
Last edited by Dutch on Tue May 05, 2015 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.



lanklet wrote:[...] but it also feels very surreal and slightly discomforting, as if it's 'not supposed' to happen.

Literally who gives a fuck about this ephemeral bullshite
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PostThis post by sephon was deleted by puanewb on Sun May 31, 2015 8:46 am.
Reason: Requested by sephon

just fucking lol

here I was thinking OP was about to describe legit problems with surgery

I do believe there is an environmental component in development of jaws (malocclusion, crowding) involved and it's not strictly a genetic issue. However, I don't take mouthbreathing and other fairy tales seriously, it seems to be more complex than that.

But I don't think jaw surgery (at least the standard ones) will alternate your appearance dramatically. It is more likely a harmonization of your face, but not the change of attractivity per se.

jaw development is ATLEAST 50% environmental.

my brother has an absolute slayer jaw (from maternal side) while ive got an incel jaw (paternal side). so not only is it 50:50 on genetic recombination, but also 50% influence from environmental factors. having kids is a gamble, but whatever, just pay him the jaw surgery later on.
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PostThis post by kyra was deleted by puanewb on Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:38 pm.
Reason: Request via Skype
PostThis post by sephon was deleted by puanewb on Sun May 31, 2015 8:46 am.
Reason: Requested by sephon

germanDream wrote:jaw development is ATLEAST 50% environmental.

my brother has an absolute slayer jaw (from maternal side) while ive got an incel jaw (paternal side). so not only is it 50:50 on genetic recombination, but also 50% influence from environmental factors. having kids is a gamble, but whatever, just pay him the jaw surgery later on.



It's simply a demonstration of how healthy your overall development was

Lol at thinking a jaw genetically cannot develop correctly (in 99% of cases)

it's all about being high on the social order so you get good treatment, the best foods, etc. Just look at monkeys.

the only difference is in america a person can be well-fed but still malnutritioned, or have allergies.

Many people underestimate simple causes like child injuries, whose effect on facial development may be significant, not only jaws, but the whole face.

sephon wrote:
JustTheWayYouAre wrote:I do believe there is an environmental component in development of jaws (malocclusion, crowding) involved and it's not strictly a genetic issue. However, I don't take mouthbreathing and other fairy tales seriously, it seems to be more complex than that.

But I don't think jaw surgery (at least the standard ones) will alternate your appearance dramatically. It is more likely a harmonization of your face, but not the change of attractivity per se.


umm harmonization ~ attractivity


Maybe I should have used "normalization" instead. ;)
PostThis post by sephon was deleted by puanewb on Sun May 31, 2015 8:46 am.
Reason: Requested by sephon

ダークホール wrote:NO PAIN NO GAME

faggot
__________________
Life is a whore, just pay your dues and fuck her hard

If you became attractive with surgery then you had fixable flaws and if your children inherit those it's fine. If you have unfixble flaws like a long midface or shitty eye area then you're fucked and shouldn't breed.
Being a 6/10 WASP guy with a trust fund is EVERYTHING
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lanklet wrote:1) What are you supposed to tell your friends after you have the surgery? From the perspective of my friends at college, I basically went from unattractive in the spring semester to slightly good looking in the fall semester. It was awkward trying to explain the surgery to them (male looksmaxing is very stigmatized by society). It also completely changed the dynamics of our friendships, as I was now suddenly better looking and much taller than them. That might sound like a good thing, but it wasn't; I ended up becoming distanced from my average friends due to the LMS imbalance.

2) When girls complement you on your face, you KNOW it's not 'real'. My girlfriend will tell me I'm cute sometimes, and it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable because I know that I'm not REALLY cute. My current physical appearance is just a surface-level modification to disguise bad maxilla genetics.

3) The question arises; should you tell your partner that you had the surgery? I've been going out with this girl for 5 months, and I still wrestle with whether or not (or when?) I should tell her. It's an awkward dilemma.

1. Wear a beard for a couple months pre then post op.
2. girls don't complement men often on their faces, other than girlfriends and mom types making prosaic complements to young men. Really this is a big problem?
3. Never acknowledge genetic shortcomings. Your jaw/face/whatever didn't develop properly due to a medication your mother took when you were a fetus, so you had surgery to correct it.

I think the base for this concern is that an ugly person shouldn't be spreading one's genes. You will still get ugly children. What will you tell your ugly children? What excuses will you have? That's what makes you worry.

gobman3000 wrote:
2) When girls complement you on your face, you KNOW it's not 'real'. My girlfriend will tell me I'm cute sometimes, and it makes me feel somewhat uncomfortable because I know that I'm not REALLY cute. My current physical appearance is just a surface-level modification to disguise bad maxilla genetics.


I never got this shit. Who the fuck cares what you used to look like? Humans are shallow as shit and the MAIN pejorative in life is to fuck upwards BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY to produce better offspring.

Nature is a cunt and would have seen you suffer as an ugly incel without any remorse or care, you as a HUMAN had the ability to change your fate and put a middle finger up to nature. Fuck what your "true self" is, no one else gives a shit. Everyone just cares about what you can give them, and now with your new face, you offer a "perfect" boyfriend material for some shallow little cumslut.

This.
And, OP may be an exception, but most facial deformities are caused by environment not genetics.

Bad maxilla genetics, or just bad orthodonic development ?

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Pics of two sisters... left one nasal breather, second one mouth breather. During your development years, you can actually fuck up your manilla by breathing with open mouth, not wearing necessary braces, etc. It is not always genetic, it might just be you.

Dont tell them about your surgery. Why are you doing this?

Yes, at this time there is no way to modifiy your genes, but in the future there will be.

In 50 years, every people will look much better.

By the way,

Before Industrial Revolution and modern medicine, as I know baby death rates were much higher than today.

So many living people are actually not "supposed" to live. So if they dont feel guilty, why the fuck are you feeling guilty?

Average lifespan was only 20-30 years before Industrial Revolution. But many people living over that nowadays, should all 30+ people feel guilty? "They are not supposed be there" actually.

Some people are born with heart defects, some born with lung defects, some people are born ugly ( as your case ) , some people born without limbs etc.

All of them are just proofs of god does not exist, so if god does not exist, actually perfection does not exist either.

So who cares if you have ugly genes? It does not matter. In future all of these problems will be solved ENTIRELY.

Because gene editing technology will be much better.
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