Does free will exist?

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DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:If we have no free will and only respond to stimulus/chemicals, why did we evolve to have consciousness?


I'm only gonna say one thing here. Aspies here will say we are controlled by other forces/chemicals, while ignoring the fact that we/our brains are forces OURSELVES.

By separating "we" from "brain chemicals", the aspies here are making a logical fallacy of using the distinction between mind (we) and our brain to prove that such a distinction doesn't exist, and yet still claiming that "we" are controlled by our brain even though they say brain and "we" are one and the same. Retarded.
Earth's sole legacy will be a very slight increase (0.01%) of the solar metallicity.

You THINK it's a soul or somewhat but it's just an illusion. Actually u even don't have an awareness !!
Over 90% are controlled by cerebrum which u don't have influence (attraction, sexuality, ...)
PLUS every action and thought is ALREADY produced seconds before you 'thinks this thought' !

First question: Whether or not we have free will is most likely an unanswerable question, though what I can say is that you shouldn't listen to the armchair philosophers on this shithole, read philosophical essays/books and think for yourself

Second question: Consciousness is a useful tool



IncelExecutioner wrote:
DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:If we have no free will and only respond to stimulus/chemicals, why did we evolve to have consciousness?


I'm only gonna say one thing here. Aspies here will say we are controlled by other forces/chemicals, while ignoring the fact that we/our brains are forces OURSELVES.

By separating "we" from "brain chemicals", the aspies here are making a logical fallacy of using the distinction between mind (we) and our brain to prove that such a distinction doesn't exist, and yet still claiming that "we" are controlled by our brain even though they say brain and "we" are one and the same. Retarded.


Why didn't you propose an answer to my question. Trees and computers get on just fine without consciousness, why was consciousness an evolutionary advantage for us?

lanklet wrote:First question: Whether or not we have free will is most likely an unanswerable question, though what I can say is that you shouldn't listen to the armchair philosophers on this shithole, read philosophical essays/books and think for yourself

Second question: Consciousness is a useful tool


Why is it a useful tool if everything is pre-determined by chemical reactions? It serves no purpose.

DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:Why didn't you propose an answer to my question. Trees and computers get on just fine without consciousness, why was consciousness an evolutionary advantage for us?


I was anticipating the arguments of the free-will denialists. Consciousness is present in all animals. Who knows how it evolved, that brain-mind gap stuff is incomprehensible to us at the moment.



IncelExecutioner wrote:
DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:If we have no free will and only respond to stimulus/chemicals, why did we evolve to have consciousness?


I'm only gonna say one thing here. Aspies here will say we are controlled by other forces/chemicals, while ignoring the fact that we/our brains are forces OURSELVES.

By separating "we" from "brain chemicals", the aspies here are making a logical fallacy of using the distinction between mind (we) and our brain to prove that such a distinction doesn't exist, and yet still claiming that "we" are controlled by our brain even though they say brain and "we" are one and the same. Retarded.


Isnt this similiar to the concept of the "ghost in the machine" which claims there is a separation between mind and body. I believe it stems from descartes philosophy of "dualism?"
To say "we" are controlled by our brain would be a logical error like you stated because this statement automatically asserts that two seperate entities exist. For determinism to make sense in such a case one would have to completely rule out any sense of "identity," in essence if you believe that humans are really just a manifestation of predetermined actions due to chemical construction of each persons unique wiring, the concept of self identity and individuality pretty much goes out the window.
Last edited by Alphameso on Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IncelExecutioner wrote:
DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:Why didn't you propose an answer to my question. Trees and computers get on just fine without consciousness, why was consciousness an evolutionary advantage for us?


I was anticipating the arguments of the free-will denialists. Consciousness is present in all animals. Who knows how it evolved, that brain-mind gap stuff is incomprehensible to us at the moment.


You are the free-will denialist though? I am only partially convinced. Things tend to evolve if they serve a purpose in some way. Our consciousness is extremely advanced with several layers.

We have unconscious reactions like hair growth, and reflexes... We have subconscious reactions and a stronger consciousness at the forefront.

Clearly a complex system like this wouldn't have evolved if it didn't serve a purpose. So the question is what purpose does it serve if we just run on chemicals and reflexes?

IncelExecutioner wrote:
DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:If we have no free will and only respond to stimulus/chemicals, why did we evolve to have consciousness?


I'm only gonna say one thing here. Aspies here will say we are controlled by other forces/chemicals, while ignoring the fact that we/our brains are forces OURSELVES.

By separating "we" from "brain chemicals", the aspies here are making a logical fallacy of using the distinction between mind (we) and our brain to prove that such a distinction doesn't exist, and yet still claiming that "we" are controlled by our brain even though they say brain and "we" are one and the same. Retarded.


There is obviously no such thing as free will. It is an illusion. Your arguments indicate a low IQ. I am not angry at you however: you had no choice in the matter :lol:

DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:
IncelExecutioner wrote:
I was anticipating the arguments of the free-will denialists. Consciousness is present in all animals. Who knows how it evolved, that brain-mind gap stuff is incomprehensible to us at the moment.


You are the free-will denialist though? I am only partially convinced. Things tend to evolve if they serve a purpose in some way. Our consciousness is extremely advanced with several layers.

We have unconscious reactions like hair growth, and reflexes... We have subconscious reactions and a stronger consciousness at the forefront.

Clearly a complex system like this wouldn't have evolved if it didn't serve a purpose. So the question is what purpose does it serve if we just run on chemicals and reflexes?


I like to view consciousness as the moderator of the mind

It gives us the benefits of (partial) self-awareness while blocking off subconscious processes that we're probably better off not knowing

It's really pointless to even discuss the fact that we 'run on chemicals', because everything we do and think is based on chemicals, including consciousness. Chemical reactions may be the basis of everything, but that doesn't neccessarily invalidate our own conscious thoughts
Last edited by lanklet on Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

peatson wrote:There is obviously no such thing as free will. It is an illusion. Your arguments indicate a low IQ. I am not angry at you however: you had no choice in the matter :lol:


Anakind alt detected.
Last edited by IncelExecutioner on Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If you knew the answer to this question, what implications would it have for your life and the lives of other sentient creatures? Any at all?

Is this topic anything more than mental masturbation?
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lanklet wrote:
DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:
You are the free-will denialist though? I am only partially convinced. Things tend to evolve if they serve a purpose in some way. Our consciousness is extremely advanced with several layers.

We have unconscious reactions like hair growth, and reflexes... We have subconscious reactions and a stronger consciousness at the forefront.

Clearly a complex system like this wouldn't have evolved if it didn't serve a purpose. So the question is what purpose does it serve if we just run on chemicals and reflexes?


I like to view consciousness as the moderator of the mind

It gives us the benefits of (partial) self-awareness while blocking off unconsciousness processes that we're probably better off not knowing

It's really pointless to even discuss the fact that we 'run on chemicals', because everything we do and think is based on chemicals, including consciousness. Chemical reactions may be the basis of everything, but that doesn't neccessarily invalidate our own conscious thoughts


What benefits? There are zero benefits unless our consciousness plays a part in manipulating the way we react. There are literally no benefits. It would make far more sense that we'd evolve separate unconscious brain compartments IF separation was needed, than an entire complex system like what we have.

Also there is zero proof that consciousness is chemical based, if there were any recent discoveries I missed them. That's why there are scientists coming up with theories about consciousness being stored in quantum computers inside the brain (Penrose) and all sorts of wacky ideas, because we dodon't yet have an answer.
Last edited by DavidDickinsonIsGod on Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Peanuts wrote:If you knew the answer to this question, what implications would it have for your life and the lives of other sentient creatures? Any at all?

Is this topic anything more than mental masturbation?


None. Purely mental masturbation indeed. Even if we have no free will and it is all just one force acting leading to another in our brain, evolution has made it so we have an insanely strong "illusion" of free will. No animal contemplates whether or not they have free will, they all act with the 100% belief that they do.
Last edited by IncelExecutioner on Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

IncelExecutioner wrote:
peatson wrote:There is obviously no such thing as free will. It is an illusion. Your arguments indicate a low IQ. I am not angry at you however: you had no choice in the matter :lol:


Anakind alt detected.


You are incel and you have no free will. I realize this is a bitter pill to swallow.

IncelExectutioner displaying some aspieness here. I knew he was aspie already from the radio conversation where he kept using puahate vernacular while talking to people who clearly didnt know anything about puahate, and kept doing it even though they consistently had to ask him what the fuck he meant. Painful lack of awareness, the hallmarks of aspieness.

LMSghost wrote:IncelExectutioner displaying some aspieness here. I knew he was aspie already from the radio conversation where he kept using puahate vernacular while talking to people who clearly didnt know anything about puahate, and kept doing it even though they consistently had to ask him what the fuck he meant. Painful lack of awareness, the hallmarks of aspieness.


Aspies are very analytical and qualified to debate philosophy. Not sure what your point is.

Lately Ive been considering this typical "materialistic view" that we are juste materia, chemicals and shit - we have no "souls" - are some kind of extreme brainwashing to make us lose our morals as people.

I think its very likely that we are way more than intelligent apes, we may very well have some kind of soul/spirit and hence an afterlife/other dimension or reality when we move on.

Colasause wrote:Lately Ive been considering this typical "materialistic view" that we are juste materia, chemicals and shit - we have no "souls" - are some kind of extreme brainwashing to make us lose our morals as people.

I think its very likely that we are way more than intelligent apes, we may very well have some kind of soul/spirit and hence an afterlife/other dimension or reality when we move on.


Due to such a large body of anecdotal evidence it's definitely worth some crack scientist squad performing serious investigations and experiments to try and prove any such theories.

I'd also be interested to investigate psychedelic/hallucinogenic phenomena, such as fractal patterns. Why are geometric patterns so deeply ingrained into us and do they have any bearing on the world around us?

It makes you wonder if we carry anything over from our great (x a billion gazillion) grandfathers who were archaic fish and the likes...

Materialistic world view is likely in some respects... Yet illogical to stand behind it like concrete when the very real truth is that we aren't even sure if the world around us exists or if it's purely an illusion of some great big mind floating around in a vacuum of nothingness.

DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:
Colasause wrote:Lately Ive been considering this typical "materialistic view" that we are juste materia, chemicals and shit - we have no "souls" - are some kind of extreme brainwashing to make us lose our morals as people.

I think its very likely that we are way more than intelligent apes, we may very well have some kind of soul/spirit and hence an afterlife/other dimension or reality when we move on.


Due to such a large body of anecdotal evidence it's definitely worth some crack scientist squad performing serious investigations and experiments to try and prove any such theories.

I'd also be interested to investigate psychedelic/hallucinogenic phenomena, such as fractal patterns. Why are geometric patterns so deeply ingrained into us and do they have any bearing on the world around us?

It makes you wonder if we carry anything over from our great (x a billion gazillion) grandfathers who were archaic fish and the likes...

Materialistic world view is likely in some respects... Yet illogical to stand behind it like concrete when the very real truth is that we aren't even sure if the world around us exists or if it's purely an illusion of some great big mind floating around in a vacuum of nothingness.


Well the materalistic world view certaintly are very logical, but again that might very well be just cause of our "limited logic" as species.

Anyone claiming to know 100% is full of shit.

Maybe we are just programs running on a big super advanced computer created by a specie way more intelligent than us, and right now they are watching us laughing their ass off how we "dont know shit".

Colasause wrote:
DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:
Due to such a large body of anecdotal evidence it's definitely worth some crack scientist squad performing serious investigations and experiments to try and prove any such theories.

I'd also be interested to investigate psychedelic/hallucinogenic phenomena, such as fractal patterns. Why are geometric patterns so deeply ingrained into us and do they have any bearing on the world around us?

It makes you wonder if we carry anything over from our great (x a billion gazillion) grandfathers who were archaic fish and the likes...

Materialistic world view is likely in some respects... Yet illogical to stand behind it like concrete when the very real truth is that we aren't even sure if the world around us exists or if it's purely an illusion of some great big mind floating around in a vacuum of nothingness.


Well the materalistic world view certaintly are very logical, but again that might very well be just cause of our "limited logic" as species.

Anyone claiming to know 100% is full of shit.

Maybe we are just programs running on a big super advanced computer created by a specie way more intelligent than us, and right now they are watching us laughing their ass off how we "dont know shit".


Realistically it's neither likely nor unlikely, as we have no way of proving if the things in our world are real or not. But oh well that's just digging too deep.

In 300 years or less our OWN species will be laughing about how we don't know shit lol.

DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:
Colasause wrote:
Well the materalistic world view certaintly are very logical, but again that might very well be just cause of our "limited logic" as species.

Anyone claiming to know 100% is full of shit.

Maybe we are just programs running on a big super advanced computer created by a specie way more intelligent than us, and right now they are watching us laughing their ass off how we "dont know shit".


Realistically it's neither likely nor unlikely, as we have no way of proving if the things in our world are real or not. But oh well that's just digging too deep.

In 300 years or less our OWN species will be laughing about how we don't know shit lol.


Well I wish those scientists could fix some time travel stuff soon enough, atleast during my life time. That would be cool as hell =))

if we had free will we would not repeat the same topics over and over again and never come to a conclusion ;)
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Colasause wrote:
DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:
Realistically it's neither likely nor unlikely, as we have no way of proving if the things in our world are real or not. But oh well that's just digging too deep.

In 300 years or less our OWN species will be laughing about how we don't know shit lol.


Well I wish those scientists could fix some time travel stuff soon enough, atleast during my life time. That would be cool as hell =))


NASA has ideas for a warp drive engine which will allow us to travel to Alpha Centauri in a matter of weeks. It works by bending space around the ship instead of propelling the ship. This mimics FTL travel.

It won't happen in our lifetime as we have zero need for such travel yet.

DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:
Colasause wrote:
Well I wish those scientists could fix some time travel stuff soon enough, atleast during my life time. That would be cool as hell =))


NASA has ideas for a warp drive engine which will allow us to travel to Alpha Centauri in a matter of weeks. It works by bending space around the ship instead of propelling the ship. This mimics FTL travel.

It won't happen in our lifetime as we have zero need for such travel yet.


that is from star trek lol.

the warp drive would work in theory, but the problem is in practice it would require insane amouns of energy.

they calculated, traveling just 5 seconds with the warp drive, would need the energy of an entire star.

quite costly that travel :lol:

EscortAddict wrote:
DavidDickinsonIsGod wrote:
NASA has ideas for a warp drive engine which will allow us to travel to Alpha Centauri in a matter of weeks. It works by bending space around the ship instead of propelling the ship. This mimics FTL travel.

It won't happen in our lifetime as we have zero need for such travel yet.


that is from star trek lol.

the warp drive would work in theory, but the problem is in practice it would require insane amouns of energy.

they calculated, traveling just 5 seconds with the warp drive, would need the energy of an entire star.

quite costly that travel :lol:


It's from Star Trek but also there are real plans about how it could work please Google it.

IncelExecutioner wrote:
peatson wrote:There is obviously no such thing as free will. It is an illusion. Your arguments indicate a low IQ. I am not angry at you however: you had no choice in the matter :lol:


Anakind alt detected.


Shouldn't a moderator like you be able to realize that I don't have any alt accounts? I thought you were so intelligent.
Whimminz reactions when I try to be more "confident":
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EscortAddict wrote:if we had free will we would not repeat the same topics over and over again and never come to a conclusion ;)


IncelExecutioner is just a mentally masturbating attention whore who still hasn't accepted his defeat in this debate. The funniest thing is he's the one who claims to have science on his side. :lol:
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