IncelExecutioner: WHEN did free will start?

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We will probably both agree that we are the result of millions (actually billions) of years of evolution. If you argue that humans have free will, you inevitably have to agree that other mammals have it too.

Our human ancestors split off the last hominid group around 400,000 years ago? So other mammals like modern monkeys which developed parallel to us must have free will too. If you claim they don't, isn't that pretty arbitrary and arrogant for humans to claim?

Also: Do tigers, polar bears and dogs have free will too?

And most importantly, WHEN did this event happen that living organism suddenly were composed of this entity called "free will"? Was it 400,000 years ago with a sudden mutation or inter-species mixing and all of a sudden it was there? Or did free will always exist and even microbes from which we originally descend have it? You would have to admit that microbes having free will sounds a bit outrageous. :lol:
Whimminz reactions when I try to be more "confident":
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you are wrong, even ants and bacteria have free will!!!!

:lol:
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Anakind wrote: WHEN did this event happen that living organism suddenly were composed of this entity called "free will"? Was it 400,000 years ago with a sudden mutation or inter-species mixing and all of a sudden it was there? Or did free will always exist and even microbes from which we originally descend have it? You would have to admit that microbes having free will sounds a bit outrageous. :lol:


it was 6000 years ago when god decided to create humans

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

btw serious again, the reason most people hold so hard on the concept of free will, is because they are religious.

all major religions depend on the concept of free will

EscortAddict wrote:you are wrong, even ants and bacteria have free will!!!!

:lol:


I heard Kant stole his Categorical Imperative from an ant. :lol: :lol: :lol:



Anakind wrote:
EscortAddict wrote:you are wrong, even ants and bacteria have free will!!!!

:lol:


I heard Kant stole his Categorical Imperative from an ant. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Also your thread is a strawman anyways, because didn't the bible tell you, that evolution is a lie ?

8-)

lol, didnt you get bored of arguing about this BS sometime during early college? no offense to IE as it's obvious he's taking the wrong side here, but it's not even something interesting to argue about anymore.
Two or three surgeries away from being Ja Rule gang.

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SupportLocalSluts wrote:lol, didnt you get bored of arguing about this BS sometime during early college? no offense to IE as it's obvious he's taking the wrong side here, but it's not even something interesting to argue about anymore.


if we weren't bored we would not be even on this forum.
:roll:



EscortAddict wrote:btw serious again, the reason most people hold so hard on the concept of free will, is because they are religious.

all major religions depend on the concept of free will


Yep, in order for God to be "good", "bad" things have to be the result of "free" decisions. Otherwise the house of cards breaks down.

SupportLocalSluts wrote:lol, didnt you get bored of arguing about this BS sometime during early college? no offense to IE as it's obvious he's taking the wrong side here, but it's not even something interesting to argue about anymore.


You see? If we had free will, I would argue about something more interesting. ;)

Anakind wrote:
EscortAddict wrote:btw serious again, the reason most people hold so hard on the concept of free will, is because they are religious.

all major religions depend on the concept of free will


Yep, in order for God to be "good", "bad" things have to be the result of "free" decisions. Otherwise the house of cards breaks down.


Even with that concept, god would still be bad, if he created us with the option to do bad things.

acutally if you believe in god, it makes much more sense to believe in a bad god. satanists are more legit than christians.

Anakind wrote:
EscortAddict wrote:btw serious again, the reason most people hold so hard on the concept of free will, is because they are religious.

all major religions depend on the concept of free will


Yep, in order for God to be "good", "bad" things have to be the result of "free" decisions. Otherwise the house of cards breaks down.


even though it would be totally illogical, god is described as omniscient (i.e. he'd even know the future), so how can free will be possible given that?

EscortAddict wrote:
SupportLocalSluts wrote:lol, didnt you get bored of arguing about this BS sometime during early college? no offense to IE as it's obvious he's taking the wrong side here, but it's not even something interesting to argue about anymore.


if we weren't bored we would not be even on this forum.
:roll:


i say let IE continue to believe that the earth is flat - at least on the internet, he'll be in the minority. let him have his moment.

Yes I've considered this. If you think about it, even an ant can make a decision about which way to turn when a bucket of water is poured at it. It's decision will be much more primitive than ours. Even dogs clearly have some human-like emotional reaction, but their free will is less "free" than ours since they are more directly controlled by their neural chemistry, whereas I stated in the previous thread, tibetan monks learn to override their basic reactions to things.

I would say there is something "special" about brain tissue in any form. Brain tissue is the most complexly formed thing in the universe in my opinion. It's so advanced that it creates a "world of ideas". That this world is caused by initial physical reactions does not disprove it. It's so complex that we can't, and may never be able to link it directly to physical reactions in our brain.

Free will as we understand it is the result of brain tissue. The more brains develop in complexity, the greater "free will" a living organism has.
Earth's sole legacy will be a very slight increase (0.01%) of the solar metallicity.

EscortAddict wrote:Even with that concept, god would still be bad, if he created us with the option to do bad things.

acutally if you believe in god, it makes much more sense to believe in a bad god. satanists are more legit than christians.


Epicurus was a smart man. Once can turn it around endless times. God can only be an asshole.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Epicurus – Greek philosopher, BC 341-270

Dysfunctionalreject wrote:even though it would be totally illogical, god is described as omniscient (i.e. he'd even know the future), so how can free will be possible given that?

ofc this as well.

yes, if he knows the future, he know we will do bad things, and if he created us with that knowledge, he is bad

Dysfunctionalreject wrote:even though it would be totally illogical, god is described as omniscient (i.e. he'd even know the future), so how can free will be possible given that?


Yep, that's what makes his followers who pray to him so idiotic. They pray for a good outcome even though God decided for them exactly 6,000 years ago. :lol: :lol: :lol:

SupportLocalSluts wrote:i say let IE continue to believe that the earth is flat - at least on the internet, he'll be in the minority. let him have his moment.


Says the psychology guy who spends all day trying to change aspie's behaviors, getting them to be less involuntary and exercise more restraint.

I don't think you guys care about reaching any conclusions any more, you just want to show off your pride in your dumbass simplification of a complex topic.
Last edited by IncelExecutioner on Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

IncelExecutioner wrote:I would say there is something "special" about brain tissue in any form. Brain tissue is the most complexly formed thing in the universe in my opinion. It's so advanced that it creates a "world of ideas". That this world is caused by initial physical reactions does not disprove it. It's so complex that we can't, and may never be able to link it directly to physical reactions in our brain.

lol what are you smokin ? please give me some

Free will does not exist, we are computer simulations, our actions are predetermined through lines ot code
Think about it, do you really think genetic mutations and evolution are random? It is the result of our masters introducing new lines of code

I believe whoever wrote my code was a rebel against our masters ane wanted us to know the truth

IncelExecutioner wrote:Yes I've considered this. If you think about it, even an ant can make a decision about which way to turn when a bucket of water is poured at it. It's decision will be much more primitive than ours. Even dogs clearly have some human-like emotional reaction, but their free will is less "free" than ours since they are more directly controlled by their neural chemistry, whereas I stated in the previous thread, tibetan monks learn to override their basic reactions to things.


Nope, they don't. If they are attacked with a knife, they defend themselves. If they are attacked with a gun, they run for cover. If their biology tells them to eat, they eat. There's no free will in that.

dreaminaboutLMS wrote:Free will does not exist, we are computer simulations, our actions are predetermined through lines ot code
Think about it, do you really think genetic mutations and evolution are random? It is the result of our masters introducing new lines of code

I believe whoever wrote my code was a rebel against our masters ane wanted us to know the truth


The entity that wrote my code is a sadistic asshole taking pleasure in my suffering.

Anakind wrote:
dreaminaboutLMS wrote:Free will does not exist, we are computer simulations, our actions are predetermined through lines ot code
Think about it, do you really think genetic mutations and evolution are random? It is the result of our masters introducing new lines of code

I believe whoever wrote my code was a rebel against our masters ane wanted us to know the truth


The entity that wrote my code is a sadistic asshole taking pleasure in my suffering.


they created you to learn more about suffering, depression and sex deprivation :lol:

Anakind is the typical aspergers.

Trying to convince everyone with his theories though nobody wants to hear/is ever interested in the shit he talks about.He doesnt know when to stop.. he just continues arguing and arguing until the other person finally is convinced of his opinion
Last edited by Severe Aspie on Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anakind wrote:Nope, they don't. If they are attacked with a knife, they defend themselves. If they are attacked with a gun, they run for cover. If their biology tells them to eat, they eat. There's no free will in that.


Jesus you go in circles. OBVIOUSLY there are situations which restrict our choices, thus diminishing our "free will". But even in these situations, people will react differently. Some people tried to escape the twin towers when they were burning, others jumped off holding their girlfriends' hand. The decision of whether suicide would be the right choice vs. trying to somehow escape through the fire is a complex choice executed by their free will.

Everytime you try to concretely disprove free will you give a faulty example. This is because you know it's incredibly hard to disprove on a philosophical basis.

IncelExecutioner wrote:Yes I've considered this. If you think about it, even an ant can make a decision about which way to turn when a bucket of water is poured at it. It's decision will be much more primitive than ours. Even dogs clearly have some human-like emotional reaction, but their free will is less "free" than ours since they are more directly controlled by their holy ghost, whereas I stated in the previous thread, tibetan monks learn to override their basic reactions to things.

I would say there is something "special" about holy ghost in any form. The holy ghost is the most complexly formed thing in the universe in my opinion. It's so advanced that it creates a "world of ideas." That this world is caused by initial spiritual reactions does not disprove it. It's so complex that we can't, and may never be able to link it directly to physical reactions in our soul.

Free will as we understand it is the result of the holy ghost. The more the holy ghost develops in complexity, the greater "free will" a living organism has.


ah yes


define free will as an observable behavior without making any reference to brain tissues, internal processes you don't understand, and other spooks. it's okay if you can't, cognitive neuroscience is fraught with the same problems.

IncelExecutioner wrote:Jesus you go in circles. OBVIOUSLY there are situations which restrict our choices, thus diminishing our "free will". But even in these situations, people will react differently. Some people tried to escape the twin towers when they were burning, others jumped off holding their girlfriends' hand. The decision of whether suicide would be the right choice vs. trying to somehow escape through the fire is a complex choice executed by their free will.


So sometimes there is free will, sometimes there isn't. Makes sense. :roll:

Severe Aspie wrote:Anakind is the typical aspergers.

Trying to convince everyone with his theories though nobody wants to hear/is ever interested in the shit he talks about.He doesnt know when to stop.. he just continues arguing and arguing until the other person finally is convinced of his opinion


Oh look, the dumb nigga crawled out of his cave.

IncelExecutioner wrote:
Jesus you go in circles. OBVIOUSLY there are situations which restrict our choices, thus diminishing our "free will". But even in these situations, people will react differently. Some people tried to escape the twin towers when they were burning, others jumped off holding their girlfriends' hand. The decision of whether suicide would be the right choice vs. trying to somehow escape through the fire is a complex choice executed by their free will.

LOL. so your proof for free will is that different people react different in the same situation ? really ? really ?

also dont you think the choice was more influence by the situation of being in a burning building, than by free will ? :roll:

you are making yourself looking like a retard

SupportLocalSluts wrote:
ah yes


define free will as an observable behavior without making any reference to brain tissues, internal processes you don't understand, and other spooks. it's okay if you can't, cognitive neuroscience is fraught with the same problems.


You're a little late to the party so you might want to read the other thread. The physical basis for thought does not necessitate a lack of "free will" as free will is popularly understood.

Severe Aspie wrote:. he just continues arguing and arguing until the other person finally is convinced of his opinion


well. that would not happen to him if he had free will :lol:
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