Suicide note, blew his brains out in Harvard, Excerpts

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EscortAddict wrote:than the philosopher is just an idiot. just because he made a degree out of mental masturbation, doesn't mean he cant be stupid.

LOL even at this sentence:

just because all thought is physical it doesn't mean that our concept of free will is negated

LOL

your will = your thoughts
your thoughts = physical
your will = physical

dont you see how retarded it is to believe in the above, and still think we have free will ? how does it even make sense ?


You're just being arrogant. The guy who wrote "suicide note" only has a psychology degree by the way. Again, you haven't even tried defining "free will" yet and yet you are trying to refute it.
Earth's sole legacy will be a very slight increase (0.01%) of the solar metallicity.



IncelExecutioner wrote:You're just being arrogant. The guy who wrote this book only has a psychology degree by the way. Again, you haven't even tried defining "free will" yet and yet you are trying to refute it.


ok, here is my definition of free will:

there is a non-physical entity (call it you/soul, I dont care) that makes decisions.

these decisions lead to physical events in the world, like you moving your hand, or eating something.

now, for this to be "free", that means no outside events have an effect on it, and it's totally independent of anything in the universe. (because if outside events had an effect on it, it would no longer be complettely free)

so you have something that is not being affected by the universe, affecting the universe.

if this was possible, this would be a direct contradiction with causality, cause & effect, and almost anything we know to be true.
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EscortAddict wrote:
ok, here is my definition of free will:

there is a non-physical entity (call it you/soul, I dont care) that makes decisions.

these decisions lead to physical events in the world, like you moving your hand, or eating something.

now, for this to be "free", that means no outside events have an effect on it, and it's totally independent of anything in the universe. (because if outside events had an effect on it, it would no longer be complettely free)

so you have something that is not being affected by the universe, affecting the universe.

if this was possible, this would be a direct contradiction with causality, cause & effect, and almost anything we know to be true.


Lol, you obviously know that I do not consider free will to necessitate these premises.

I disagree that your choice cannot be affected by outside events, it just cannot be COERCED by outside events. There is a big difference.

My definition does not involve the presence of a non-physical entity or complete independence from outside events. In my opinion the corollaries of the neuronal workings of the brain are so close to our concept of "spiritual" that they might as well be from our perspective. The physical workings of the brain are so complex and nuanced that the creation of this pseudo-spiritual existence is strong enough to validate most people's concept of "free-will".

And also quantum mechanics allow for tons of randomness in the cause and effect workings of the universe, this randomness only adds to the pseudo-spiritual existence I describe which I believe is close enough to most people's understanding of consciousness and "free will".

IncelExecutioner wrote:
EscortAddict wrote:
ok, here is my definition of free will:

there is a non-physical entity (call it you/soul, I dont care) that makes decisions.

these decisions lead to physical events in the world, like you moving your hand, or eating something.

now, for this to be "free", that means no outside events have an effect on it, and it's totally independent of anything in the universe. (because if outside events had an effect on it, it would no longer be complettely free)

so you have something that is not being affected by the universe, affecting the universe.

if this was possible, this would be a direct contradiction with causality, cause & effect, and almost anything we know to be true.


Lol, you obviously know that I do not consider free will to necessitate these premises.

I disagree that your choice cannot be affected by outside events, it just cannot be COERCED by outside events. There is a big difference.

My definition does not involve the presence of a non-physical entity or complete independence from outside events. In my opinion the corollaries of the neuronal workings of the brain are so close to our concept of "spiritual" that they might as well be from our perspective. The physical workings of the brain are so complex and nuanced that the creation of this pseudo-spiritual existence is strong enough to validate most people's concept of "free-will".

And also quantum mechanics allow for tons of randomness in the cause and effect workings of the universe, this randomness only adds to the pseudo-spiritual existence I describe which I believe is close enough to most people's understanding of consciousness and "free will".


as I wrote, from a practical point of view we can say there is a free will, because it's impossible to predict our choices.

but from a hard philosophical / physical point of view, the concept of free will is bullshit.

And this is important, because it would have a big effect on our law system



WIKIPEDIA??? Are you fucking serious?

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Whimminz reactions when I try to be more "confident":
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ITT: Free will supporters back-peddling in hilarious attempts to save their face and live on in their fantasy land.

EscortAddict wrote:
as I wrote, from a practical point of view we can say there is a free will, because it's impossible to predict our choices.

but from a hard philosophical / physical point of view, the concept of free will is bullshit.

And this is important, because it would have a big effect on our law system


If anything it's the opposite, a practical existence of free will would mean that we should apply justice maintaining the concept of free will, as justice is supposed to be served practically.

Like Anakind's idea of cutting off a sex-offender's balls is wrong as you have no idea whether or not the offender will reform himself. Even if you don't believe in "free will", the offender might have neuronal firings which cause him to reconsider his life and seek to be more moral in a societally approved way.

The equating of a lack of free will and harsher legal punishments is illogical, that I can say for sure, for reasons I explained immediatley above.



Anakind wrote:ITT: Free will supporters back-peddling in hilarious attempts to save their face and live on in their fantasy land.


No I'm just being intellectually honest whereas you are pretentious and arrogant about it, and won't admit that there is ambiguity in the debate despite the fact that there are tons of highly intelligent people on both sides, and the debate is pretty split even amongst scientists.

Your use of condescending smileys is highly ironic considering this thread, and that it reflects overly emotional responses to this debate which would make you seem even more physically guided and less philosophically objective than me.

Maybe you can try re-reading excerpts from "suicide note" and try understanding some of it this time.
Last edited by IncelExecutioner on Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

IncelExecutioner wrote:The equating of a lack of free will and harsher legal punishments is illogical, that I can say for sure, for reasons I explained immediatley above.


the error is to even think of "punishment" here.

the most important thing should be to protect society from harmful individuals, not to punish them.

so for example if castration would guarantee that a sex offender wont do anymore rapes, he should have the option instead of jail.

or if you could remove a part of the brain so that a murderer wont murder again, he should also have this option.

IncelExecutioner wrote: there are tons of highly intelligent people on both sides, and the debate is pretty split even amongst scientists.
.

there are people with high IQ who believe in god.

you can be high IQ and still be retarded

IncelExecutioner wrote:And also quantum mechanics allow for tons of randomness in the cause and effect workings of the universe, this randomness only adds to the pseudo-spiritual existence I describe which I believe is close enough to most people's understanding of consciousness and "free will".


This is typical. Every time someone runs out of arguments he comes up with quantum quackery to prove his point. It reminds me of the blue-pilled idiot Michio Kaku who wastes his high intelligence defending his fantasy world instead of using it for actual scientific discoveries.

My favorite claim of these quantum idiots is that since we can't predict the next position of an electron it implies this randomness proves free will. You have to be in awe of this absurd logic. Next time I'm confronted with the randomness of Roulette I control the outcome with my "free will". :lol: :lol: :lol:

EscortAddict wrote:there are people with high IQ who believe in god.

you can be high IQ and still be retarded


That's extremely arrogant and intellectually dishonest of you. 95%+ of the scientific community doesn't believe in religion. This debate of the existence of free-will or lack there of is clearly much more split. For you to pretend otherwise is a bullshit justification of your side.

EscortAddict wrote:there are people with high IQ who believe in god.

you can be high IQ and still be retarded


+ 1

A lot of "intelligent" believe in the anthropogenic global warming or HIV / AIDS hoaxes. And they will be exposed as some of the greatest scientific frauds in human history.

IncelExecutioner wrote:
EscortAddict wrote:there are people with high IQ who believe in god.

you can be high IQ and still be retarded


That's extremely arrogant and intellectually dishonest of you. 95%+ of the scientific community doesn't believe in religion. This debate of the existence of free-will or lack there of is clearly much more split. For you to pretend otherwise is a bullshit justification of your side.


that's because this is a quite new topic.

in a few 100 years free will believers will be seen as the same as we see religious people today.

we just need more studies on this

IncelExecutioner wrote:That's extremely arrogant and intellectually dishonest of you. 95%+ of the scientific community doesn't believe in religion. This debate of the existence of free-will or lack there of is clearly much more split. For you to pretend otherwise is a bullshit justification of your side.


How do you actually know? Is there a survey with tens of thousands of scientists? And what kind of "scientists"? Do they regard a psychologist or sociologist as a scientist? :lol:

There is also the false claim that most scientists believe in anthropogenic global warming and it's simply not true. There's absolutely no evidence for it. This ridiculous claim was pulled out of Al Gore's ass.

Anakind wrote:This is typical. Every time someone runs out of arguments he comes up with quantum quackery to prove his point. It reminds me of the blue-pilled idiot Michio Kaku who wastes his high intelligence defending his fantasy world instead of using it for actual scientific discoveries.

My favorite claim of these quantum idiots is that since we can't predict the next position of an electron it implies this randomness proves free will. You have to be in awe of this absurd logic. Next time I'm confronted with the randomness of Roulette I control the outcome with my "free will". :lol: :lol: :lol:


You clearly lack reading comprehension ability, as your deterministic buddy EscortAddict brought up qauntum mechanics first as a possible argument for free will , which is why I brought it up knowing it might be used against me. Obviously you seek to ignore that and use it to attack me.

I don't think anything will be settled from this argument, other than that you seem to be arguing here to satisfy your ego whereas I'm intellectually honest about it.

The fact that you guys can't even admit there is ambiguity here leads me to believe you're full of shit and not interested in understanding anything but rather just want to hammer your views so people will think you're super smart and philosophically advanced.

How amusing that the determinists are the ones who care more about primitive physical thrills like the endorphin rush they hope to achieve from beating me in this argument, even though I as the "free will" proponent am supposed to less disillusioned about life and more easily satisfied by primitive physical reactions.

IncelExecutioner wrote:
You clearly lack reading comprehension ability, as your deterministic buddy EscortAddict brought up qauntum mechanics first as a possible argument for free will


No. I only pointed out that quantum mechanics could lead to randomness in our decisions.

just because the role of a dice is random, doesnt mean any higher intelligence is controlling it.

And at some point in the future we may actually find out, that quantum mechanics are not random, they just follow a pattern/rule we dont see/know right now.

But to see this as free will is kinda far fetched, you still have no soul, and you will still be dead if your brain activity stops.

IncelExecutioner wrote:The fact that you guys can't even admit there is ambiguity here leads me to believe you're full of shit and not interested in understanding anything but rather just want to hammer your views so people will think you're super smart and philosophically advanced.


There's also ambiguity as to whether the Earth is a globe or flat. The believers in the latter idea are called idiots.

EscortAddict wrote:No. I only pointed out that quantum mechanics could lead to randomness in our decisions.

...

And at some point in the future we may actually find out, that quantum mechanics are not random, they just follow a pattern/rule we dont see/know right now.


Good point. At this stage we actually know next to nothing about quantum mechanics which is why it's annoying when some smart-asses try to use it for their arguments. It might be that quantum mechanics just follows the same physical laws that we see on a macro-scale and the movements of electrons are actually not random at all.

By the way, this is another topic: Do you know these "Quantum-healing" idiots? :lol: :lol: :lol:

EscortAddict wrote:
No. I only pointed out that quantum mechanics could lead to randomness in our decisions.

just because the role of a dice is random, doesnt mean any higher intelligence is controlling it.

And at some point in the future we may actually find out, that quantum mechanics are not random, they just follow a pattern/rule we dont see/know right now.

But to see this as free will is kinda far fetched, you still have no soul, and you will still be dead if your brain activity stops.


You are pretending I made the wrong conclusions to support your side, I clearly said quantum mechanics add to the "pseudo-spiritual" world of ours through randomness, not through creating an actual spiritual entity. To imply I made that conclusion is intellectually dishonest of you, again.

Once again, it is my belief that the reality of our thoughts, caused by the physical neurons, is so advanced and incomprehensibly nuanced that it may as well be spiritual. Most of the tenets and ideologies we base off of free-will would remain even if we uncovered the most basic workings of our brain, in my opinion.

You are again denying that free-will can have a physical basis. It is your choice to define it as having to be supernatural, not mine, or most other people's.

BTW, the quantum bit I said is minor and I only brought it up in passing. So don't get all ready to ejaculate because you think you're gonna "GET ME" with it. Obviously you guys haven't and can't respond to the core logical premises of my side so you resort to gut attacks of a single fringe thing I said.

I came up with the perfect example to disprove free will (other than calling free will supporters idiots of course).

Imagine you're a terrorist being interrogated by an intelligence service and they inject sodium penthate (truth serum) into your veins to find out about the plans for the terrorist attack your buddies are planning. Why injecting that stuff? You have free will. The truth serum won't work. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anakind wrote:I came up with the perfect example to disprove free will (other than calling free will supporters idiots of course).

Imagine you're a terrorist being interrogated by an intelligence service and they inject sodium penthate (truth serum) into your veins to find out about the plans for the terrorist attack your buddies are planning. Why injecting that stuff? You have free will. The truth serum won't work. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Lol what a horrible example. There are actually people who have been able to resist truth serum, just like those serial killers who can pass polygraph tests. Obviously you can still attribute this to brain chemistry and say free will doesn't exist. Regardless, your example is meaningless.

I've thought about it, and essentially what we're arguing about is whether a "world of ideas" exists separate from the physical world. I believe that the illusion of a "world of ideas" is so strong and essentially mirrors what we perceive as "ideas" that it does exist.

If you're gonna say we have no free will because everything is a physical corollary than you should be against any sort of "mental/idea world" as that would be a different realm from the physical one which decides everything.

IncelExecutioner wrote:I've thought about it, and essentially what we're arguing about is whether a "world of ideas" exists separate from the physical world. I believe that the illusion of a "world of ideas" is so strong and essentially mirrors what we perceive as "ideas" that it does exist.


You could also argue there is an immaterial world in a computer b/c it's so magical how 1s and 0s are turned into videos and sounds. Unfortunately there's no magic behind it and our brain functions similarly; biochemical reactions creating expressions.

Anakind wrote:
You could also argue there is an immaterial world in a computer b/c it's so magical how 1s and 0s are turned into videos and sounds. Unfortunately there's no magic behind it and our brain functions similarly; biochemical reactions creating expressions.


Our brains are infinitely more nuanced than a computer, which is why it's been so hard to get a computer to communicate in a human way, "feel emotions", or even employ human cognitive processes in a trivia game like Jeopardy.

DeppIsGod wrote:
EscortAddict wrote:life is meaningless, there is no arguing around it.

the only point is to maximize your dopamine rushes while still alive, because that is the only thing that is real & feels good.

so sex, drugs & good food = the meaning of life

This!

People often ask me what the meaning of life is. I always say that there is no clear answer because everyone is different. If a religious person ask me this question I will tell them to follow their religion, but as a atheist I don't have a religion to follow. The true purpose of the human race is to survive and reproduce (and ultimately explore/conquer the universe), but the people who live in the western world is well beyond survival and reproduction. We don't need to worry about surviving or reproducing any more. So we will have to make up a PURPOSE of life.

I always say that the purpose of life is to be HAPPY, and everyone is different which means that everyone achieves happiness from different things. But when I talk about happiness, I'm talking about the ULTIMATE kind of happiness. To achieve your biggest goal/dream in life, that is the meaning of life. Do you dream about becoming a doctor? Then that's your purpose in life. Do you dream about becoming a famous singer? Then that's your purpose in life. In reality what most people really want is to be rich, why? Not because of the money itself, but because of the freedom. Money will give you the freedom to do ANYTHING. People don't realize that we are all slaves to the system. Without any money, you can't do anything, that's the redpill truth. So at the end of the day, the purpose of life is to be happy and 90 % of people can only be TRULY happy if they are financial independent.

There are many stages of happiness, the goal is to get to the top. Result of getting to the top? Dopamine overload. It may seem crazy but happiness comes from dopamine, so really the meaning of life is to maximize dopamine in the brain. Now some may want to travel, some may want to own a Ferrari (I'm talking about the biggest goal and dream in a persons life), but the end result is the same = Dopamine overload.

If you are one of those people who don't have any dreams, don't believe in god/afterlife and don't want money (not money itself, but the things that money can buy), then you have no purpose to live. Sorry.

EDIT: You should focus on your goal/dream and do everything to achieve it, WITHOUT hurting anyone in the process. Hurting someone both physically or mentally is WRONG. Do whatever you want to your own body, it's your life and you should be able to do whatever you want to it, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else.



This is fucking legit! Good stuff!
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“Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find that life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they allotted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man.”


Someone needed to tell this phaggot that death is inevitable, but truly living is not.
Tell me with whom you associate and I will tell you who you are. If I know with what you busy yourself, I know what you amount to

Facial Hatred wrote:What an aspie. Just live your life and have fun!


Says the guy who's living his life on an incel forum.
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